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http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11116		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JBarot [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:53 pm ]
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hi to everyone! 


i am planning to make a classical guitar, my first try ever ("oh no, not another one!!" lol).  i just have a question:  what are the differences between  a Torres, a Ramirez, and a Hauser design?  i apologize for the question, but to a newbie like me everything is new, which is daunting but exciting at the same time...


thanks for letting me in and post this question.
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome,

I don't no the answer to your question but offer you a link to plans available at Guild of American Luthiers.

It's a start and you maybe able to pick out the structural differences from the images on the web site.

Guild of American Luthiers Instrument Plans
Author:  Kim [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:24 pm ]
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Gday JBarot,

Can't really help but their are those who can that will tune in shortly.

Just wanted to say welcome to the OLF

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Martin Turner [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:15 pm ]
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Lots of variations between Torres, Ramirez and Hausers guitars. Ive just finished a Torres classical and am just starting work on a Hauser based instrument.

Major areas of variation IMO:

1. Top wood selection and thicknessing. eg. Hauser's 1937 guitar built for Segovia is surprisingly thick, especially on the treble side.
2. Bracing design.
3. Headstock design....about the only area a classical maker can advertise his name (indirectly) along with the rosette. Again compare Hauser's square ended tuning slots and intricate headstock carvings with other makers.

Courtnall's "Making Master Guitars" has a good run down on instruments made by the major makers.

Cheers
Author:  Martin Turner [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nearly forget...welcome to the OLF forum!
Author:  JBarot [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:38 am ]
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thanks for the replies, they were all helpful and warm!


the fog is slowly lifting...
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:49 pm ]
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JBarot -

Welcome. I just finished my first classical (pictures at http://chinacat.coastal.udel.edu/~kirby/guitars/alex_s/rodri guez-alex.html
and I'm chompin' at the bit to finish more, and get them better.

The one shown is based on the Miguel Rodriguez plan at the Guild of American Luthiers (luth.org). It is a fairly large bodied guitar. Standard wisdom seems to be that it is harder to build a good large guitar, in terms of getting it well balanced, but this one came out nice for a first try and I would have no hesitation to build more of them (good thing, because the fingerboard goes on number 2 this weekend). However, based on months of obsessive CD listening that started when I was trying to get an understanding of how these sound, I'm going to try a Romanillos design next, which is relatively much smaller-bodied. Plans for these are at GAL or in Courtnall's book mentioned above. Courtnall's book is really interesting in terms of the descriptions of various builders' plans, and is a good description of a build process as well, although some of the steps are a little strange. I like the new book by John Bogdanovich, a hardcover available on Amazon for $20 that has a billion photos and seems to all make sense.

Jim

Author:  jfrench [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:06 am ]
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Hi JBarot,

That is a very good question.

For your purposes, since you're working n your very first classical, you can pretty much lump Torres and Hauser together. The basic design of a Hauser is very close to that of a Torres. There are definite differences but they come down to some of the finer points (for instance, Hauser tended toward thicker soundboards, thicker sides, a different method of attaching the head to the neck shaft, a peculiar cross grain patch beneath the fingerboard over the body and of course things that can't really be described or even known without direct comparison).

I assume when you ask about Ramirez you're thinking along the lines of Jose Ramirez III - the modern Ramirez guitars. These are a very different monster then a traditional Spanish guitar. The construction is heavy by comparison and the use of Western Red Cedar for the soundboards is an important note. They often also have "double sides" where the sides are laminated with Cypress.

In my opinion most of the differences in a Ramirez stem from business decisions rather than what makes the best guitar.

Most people use the '37 Hauser owned by Segovia as a springboard. But if I were making my first guitar I think I'd go with the 1912 Manuel Ramirez (reputed to be made by Santos Hernandez in the Ramirez shop). It is plan #38 offered by the GAL.

Use a good European Spruce soundboard. I think that is important.

If you prefer to try a Cedar guitar, I'd use the Miguel Rodriguez plans.

Author:  JBarot [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:10 am ]
Post subject: 

thank you jtkirby and jfrench for your replies.


i'm taking my time on this project, i'm going to enjoy the entire process and hopefully, the product.
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